{"id":7128,"date":"2013-04-25T15:07:27","date_gmt":"2013-04-25T15:07:27","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.journeytothecloud.com\/?p=2851"},"modified":"2013-04-25T15:07:27","modified_gmt":"2013-04-25T15:07:27","slug":"catching-up-with-chuck-hollis-a-storage-discussion","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/icloud.pe\/blog\/catching-up-with-chuck-hollis-a-storage-discussion\/","title":{"rendered":"Catching up with Chuck Hollis: A Storage Discussion"},"content":{"rendered":"

Things are moving fast in the IT world. Recently, we caught up with Chuck Hollis (EMC\u2019s Global Marketing CTO and popular industry blogger<\/a>) to discuss a variety of topics including datacenter federation, Solid State Drives, and misperceptions surrounding cloud storage. <\/span><\/p>\n

JTC<\/strong>: Let\u2019s start off with Datacenter federation\u2026what is coming down the road for running active\/active datacenters with both HA and DR?<\/p>\n

Chuck<\/strong>: I suppose the first thing that\u2019s worth pointing out is that we\u2019re starting to see using multiple data centers as an opportunity, as opposed to some sort of problem to overcome. Five years ago, it seems that everyone wanted to collapse into one or two data centers. Now, it\u2019s pretty clear that the pendulum is starting to move in the other direction \u2013 using a number of smaller locations that are geographically dispersed.<\/p>\n

The motivations are pretty clear as well: separation gives you additional protection, for certain applications users get better experiences when they\u2019re close to their data, and so on. And, of course, there are so many options these days for hosting, managed private cloud services and the like. No need to own all your data centers anymore!<\/p>\n

As a result, we want to think of our \u201cpool of resources\u201d as not just the stuff sitting in a single data center, but the stuff in all of our locations. We want to load balance, we want to failover, we want to recover from a disaster<\/a> and so on \u2013 and not require separate technology stacks.<\/p>\n

We\u2019re now at a point where the technologies are coming together nicely to do just that. In the EMC<\/a> world, that would be products like VPLEX and RecoverPoint, tightly integrated with VMware<\/a> from an operations perspective. I\u2019m impressed that we have a non-trivial number of customers that are routinely doing live migrations at metro distances using VPLEX<\/a> or testing their failover capabilities (not-disruptively and at a distance) using RecoverPoint.<\/p>\n

The costs are coming down, the simplicity and integration is moving up \u2013 meaning that these environments are far easier to justify, deploy and manage than just a few years ago. Before long, I think we\u2019ll see active-active data centers as sort of an expected norm vs. an exception.<\/p>\n

JTC<\/strong>: How is SSD being leveraged in total data solutions now, with the rollout of the various ExtremeIO products?<\/p>\n

Chuck<\/strong>: Well, I think most people realize we\u2019re in the midst of a rather substantial storage technology shift. Flash (in all its forms) is now preferred for performance, disks for capacity.<\/p>\n

The first wave of flash adoption was combining flash and disk inside the array (using intelligent software), usually dubbed a \u201chybrid array\u201d. These have proven to be very, very popular: with the right software, a little bit of flash in your array can result in an eye-popping performance boost and be far more cost effective than trying to use only physical disks to do so. In the EMC portfolio, this would be FAST on either a VNX or VMAX. The approach has proven so popular that most modern storage arrays have at least some sort of ability to mix flash and disk.<\/p>\n

The second wave is upon us now: putting flash cards directly into the server to deliver even more cost-effective performance. With this approach, storage is accessed at bus speed, not network speed \u2013 so once again you get an incredible boost in performance, even as compared to the hybrid arrays. Keep in mind, though: today this server-based flash storage is primarily used as a cache, and not as persistent and resilient storage \u2013 there\u2019s still a need for external arrays in most situations. In the EMC portfolio<\/a>, that would be the XtremSF hardware and XxtremSW software \u2013 again, very popular with the performance-focused crowd.<\/p>\n

The third wave will get underway later this year: all-flash array designs that leave behind the need to support spinning disks. Without dragging you through the details, if you design an array to support flash and only flash, you can do some pretty impactful things in terms of performance, functionality, cost-effectiveness and the like. I think the most exciting example right now is the XtremIO array which we\u2019ve started to deliver to customers. Performance-wise, it spans the gap between hybrid arrays and server flash, delivering predictable performance largely regardless of how you\u2019re accessing the data. You can turn on all the bells and whistles (snaps, etc.) and run them at full-bore. And data deduplication is assumed to be on all the time, making the economics a lot more approachable.<\/p>\n

The good news: it\u2019s pretty clear that the industry is moving to flash. The challenging part? Working with customers hand-in-hand to figure out how to get there in a logical and justifiable fashion. And that\u2019s where I think strong partners like GreenPages<\/a> can really help.<\/p>\n

JTC<\/strong>: How do those new products tie into FAST on the array side, with software on the hosts, SSD cards for the servers and SSD arrays?<\/p>\n

Chuck<\/strong>: Well, at one level, it\u2019s important that the arrays know about the server-side flash, and vice-versa.<\/p>\n

Let\u2019s start with something simple like management: you want to get a single picture of how everything is connected \u2013 something we\u2019ve put in our management products like Unisphere. Going farther, the server flash should know when to write persistent data to the array and not keep it locally \u2013 that\u2019s what XtremSW does among other things. The array, in turn, shouldn\u2019t be trying to cache data that\u2019s already being cached by the server-side flash \u2013 that would be wasteful.<\/p>\n

Another way of looking at it is that the new \u201cstorage stack\u201d extends beyond the array, across the network and into the server itself. The software algorithms have to know this. The configuration and management tools have to know this. As a result, the storage team and the server team have to work together in new ways. Again, working with a partner that understands these issues is very, very helpful.<\/p>\n

JTC<\/strong>: What\u2019 the biggest misperception about cloud storage right now?<\/p>\n

Chuck<\/strong>: Anytime you use the word \u201ccloud<\/a>,\u201d you\u2019re opening yourself up for all sorts of misconceptions, and cloud storage is no exception. The only reasonable way to talk about the subject is by looking at different use cases vs. attempting to establish what I believe is a non-existent category.<\/p>\n

Here\u2019s an example: we\u2019ve got many customers who\u2019ve decided to use an external service for longer-term data archiving: you know, the stuff you can\u2019t throw away, but nobody is expected to use. They get this data out of their environment by handing it off to a service provider, and then take the bill and pass it on directly to the users who are demanding the service. From my perspective, that\u2019s a win-win for everyone involved.<\/p>\n

Can you call that \u201ccloud storage\u201d? Perhaps.<\/p>\n

Or, more recently, let\u2019s take Syncplicity, EMC\u2019s product for enterprise sync-and-share. There are two options for where the user data sits: either an external cloud storage service, or an internal one based on Atmos or Isilon<\/a>. Both are very specific examples of \u201ccloud storage,\u201d but the decision as to whether you do it internally or externally is driven by security policy<\/a>, costs and a bunch of other factors.<\/p>\n

Other examples include global enterprises that need to move content around the globe, or perhaps someone who wants to stash a safety copy of their backups at a remote location. Are these \u201ccloud storage?\u201d<\/p>\n

So, to answer your question more directly, I think the biggest misconception is that \u2013 without talking about very specific use cases \u2013 we sort of devolve into a hand-waving and philosophy exercise. Is cloud a technology and operational model, or is it simply a convenient consumption model?<\/p>\n

The technologies and operational models are identical for everyone, whether you do it yourself or purchase it as a service from an external provider.<\/p>\n

JTC<\/strong>: Talk about Big Data and how EMC solutions are addressing that market (Isilon, GreenPlum, what else?).<\/p>\n

Chuck<\/strong>: If you thought that \u201ccloud\u201d caused misperceptions, it\u2019s even worse for \u201cbig data.\u201d I try to break it down into the macro and the micro.<\/p>\n

At the macro level, information is becoming the new wealth. Instead of it being just an adjunct to the business process, it *is* the business process. The more information that can be harnessed, the better your process can be. That leads us to a discussion around big data analytics, which is shaping up to be the \u201ckiller app\u201d for the next decade. Business people are starting to realize that building better predictive models can fundamentally change how they do business, and now the race is on. Talk to anyone in healthcare, financial services, retail, etc. \u2013 the IT investment pattern has clearly started to shift as a result.<\/p>\n

From an IT perspective, the existing challenges can get much, much more challenging. Any big data app is the new 800 pound gorilla, and you\u2019re going to have a zoo-full of them. It\u2019s not unusual to see a 10x or 100x spike in the demand for storage resources when this happens. All of the sudden, you start looking for new scale-out storage technologies (like Isilon, for example) and better ways to manage things. Whatever you were doing for the last few years won\u2019t work at all going forward.<\/p>\n

There\u2019s a new software stack in play: think Hadoop, HDFS, a slew of analytical tools, collaborative environments \u2013 and an entirely new class of production-grade predictive analytics applications that get created. That\u2019s why EMC and VMware formed Pivotal from existing assets like Greenplum, GemFire et. al. \u2013 there was nothing in the market that addressed this new need, and did it in a cloud-agnostic manner.<\/p>\n

Finally, we have to keep in mind that the business wants \u201cbig answers\u201d, and not \u201cbig data.\u201d There\u2019s a serious organizational journey<\/a> involved in building these environments, extracting new insights, and operationalizing the results. Most customers need outside help to get there faster, and we see our partner community starting to respond in kind.<\/p>\n

If you\u2019d like a historical perspective, think back to where the internet was in 1995. It was new, it was exotic, and we all wondered how things would change as a result. It\u2019s now 2013, and we\u2019re looking at big data as a potentially more impactful example. We all can see the amazing power; how do we put it to work in our respective organizations?<\/p>\n

Exciting time indeed \u2026.<\/p>\n

Chuck is the Global Marketing CTO at EMC. You can read more from Chuck on his blog<\/a> and follow him on Twitter at @chuckhollis.<\/em><\/p>\n

\n<\/img><\/a> <\/img><\/a> <\/img><\/a> <\/img><\/a>\n<\/div>\n

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Things are moving fast in the IT world. Recently, we caught up with Chuck Hollis (EMC\u2019s Global Marketing CTO and popular industry blogger) to discuss a variety of topics including datacenter federation, Solid State Drives, and misperceptions surrounding cloud storage. JTC: Let\u2019s start off with Datacenter federation\u2026what is coming down the road for running active\/active…Read More »<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":25,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[422,179,1564,1565,1566,63,486],"tags":[18],"class_list":["post-7128","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-disaster-recovery","category-featured","category-flash","category-high-availability","category-ssd","category-storage","category-storage-and-information-management","tag-cloud"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/icloud.pe\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7128","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/icloud.pe\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/icloud.pe\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icloud.pe\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/25"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icloud.pe\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=7128"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/icloud.pe\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7128\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/icloud.pe\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=7128"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icloud.pe\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=7128"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icloud.pe\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=7128"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}